Does someone have a comparison of studies between those that support the mrna shots and those that do not?
I would like to find those sources, because that's where I would start my argument. Peer-reviewed studies, pro and con. And let's see which ones are more reasonable.
(Of course, I would also include in my argument the experiences of real people who were injured or killed by these shots, and the experiences of real doctors & nurses.)
The covid shots are easier to tackle first than the regular vaccines, in my loose opinion.
"But what are the steps in the conversion process for people who have not witnessed vaccine injury first-hand? I’ve been wanting to figure this out for several years now and it’s surprisingly difficult. So I’ve decided to turn to you, my beloved readers, to see if we can figure this out together."
I think the first step is that the vaccine simply doesn't work, but they deployed it anyhow. The disease also has a 0.02% death rate - that's 1 out of 500 across the entire population. Another nudge is just the sheer criminality of pharmaceutical companies. Johnson&Johnson KNOWINGLY sold baby powder contaminated with asbestos. Pfizer paid 2.3 billion for fraud.
There's a point though it's just not worth getting people to realize what has been done. Don't beg somebody to listen to you. Just tell them the truth, and if they don't accept it, that's not your problem.
This is a great sequence for deprogramming. What I found missing is from Level -3: An answer for the worldview "Doctors and scientists have a lot to lose," can be "The opposite is true for doctors: if they discourage vaccines, their medical board can censure them or pull their license. Did you know there is a new law in California punishing doctors from telling patients about alternatives? And scientists are just as vulnerable to backlash if they don't toe the vaccine line."
Dec 2, 2022·edited Dec 2, 2022Liked by Toby Rogers
absolutely brilliant article and approach!! this would be an amazing area for some further research to actually interview converted vax-free parents about this and get some kind of qualitative and quantitative analysis. actually put psychology graduates to research for good rather than evil!!!!
for me - I am ashamed to say that I still got my then 6 month old his immunisations only a few weeks after realising the government was not telling me the full picture about the safety & effectiveness of covid vaccine. I only made the decision to stop vaccinating a few months after that, once I fully realised the depth of deception about ALL vaccines (especially lack of efficacy).
Agree with all the points you raised - but there is one factor I feel operates strongly possibly at a subconscious level of awareness - and that is **who is MORALLY at fault if there is a bad outcome as a result of your decision to either comply, or not comply, with vaccination**
I have been hesitant about childhood vaccines for years, especially due to family history of autism and having followed Dr Natasha Campbell-McBride and the WAPF. However I did not want to take on the responsibility and MORAL BURDEN of making my own decision about my child.
My thinking went like this. If my child was injured by a vaccine **no one is at fault**. Because as a parent, I was just following orders, and the rare vaccine injury is a tragic but inevitable and UNAVOIDABLE consequence of universal vaccination.
On the other hand, if my child dies of an allegedly vaccine-preventable illness, **I am at fault**. Because I didn't listen to the government, I was arrogant and thought I was smarter than thousands of doctors and scientists and put my own child at AVOIDABLE risk.
This whole avoidable (thus unacceptable) vs unavoidable (thus acceptable) risk is the same way they brainwashed people into accepting covid vaccine deaths as tragic but unavoidable ; whereas covid deaths are avoidable (through vaccination) and therefore unacceptable.
This is exactly how our doctors and medical system attribute blame. I actually recently had a doctor tell me that I should much prefer a child with autism (1 in 30 change) than a child dead of tetanus (1 in 1 million chance) "as tetanus is a horrible way to die, and I have watched it happen". There are other social factors that support parents to outsource their decision-making to avoid the moral burden of being wrong.
If my child is vaccine injured, here in Australia I would get support from the government in the form of disability and carer respite services (including a house cleaner and massage vouchers), psychological payoff with a special hashtag to add to my insta bio ""special needs mum/mom"" ; an invitation to join a special celebrated community of neurodiversity complete with rainbows and feelgood TV shows (e.g. "Love on the Spectrum"). If my child dies or is disabled by an allegedly vaccine-preventable illness, I would not only be blamed and ostracised by family, friends, the medical profession, and the media, but I could never live with the self-blame.
The key here is, once parents realise that there are NO benefits to childhood vaccines, only risks, the whole question of moral authority and moral burden becomes moot, and its easier to have the courage to go against the grain.
The bigger question is: why was I so anxious and immature as to knowingly run the risk of my child being vaccine injured ,as long as someone else footed the moral bill? its an extremely troubling question.
Name them. Name the 4 rabbits (we'll name one Lost). Name the 8 mice. Disney did it and changed the world. We need to name them and God help us - the millions other animals that are sacrificed as we get sicker and sicker.
I think it is well put together. We have to use the socratic method . I am so passionate about this topic that I come across too strong. These steps are good!!!
Nov 23, 2022·edited Nov 27, 2022Liked by Toby Rogers
The article was brilliant, practical, thoughtful. Literally, one of the most useful articles I have read. I carry it with me! People can individualize it as they get additional thoughts. I think the title should be “What Are the Steps to Conversion from Vaccine True Believer to Vaccine Abolitionist?” Just a suggestion.
Toby, could you change the name of this article - remove "Crowdsourcing Request"? It's one of the best articles I have read, and I print and pass it out to friends for discussion, but the title is misleading.
Those two words are misleading about the subject matter of the article. Just say, "What are the steps..." etc.
I'm confused by this request. I have no idea what the steps are. I attempted to answer the question to model the process that I wanted others to go through in thinking through this issue. Almost 400 comments later, this, to me, feels like a crowdsourced project. I always learn a lot from the comments (which is why I request them). What is it about the words "crowdsourcing request" that is a deal breaker for you? I imagine you could build a handout (in Microsoft Word or a PDF) with a different headline and the different steps I've outlined (and then just give me credit somewhere for the idea). Substack automatically generates the URL and the words "crowdsourcing request" are in there.
Have appreciated your posts for a long time (back in the day on twister and fakebook!) Years ago, I wrote a couple of books on persuasion. I talked about there being 3 kinds of positions: strong, weak, and opposition. The best way to break through a strong position is by creating cognitive dissonance about only a small part of it...introducing info that reveals how a detail is wrong. The best way to break through a weak position is by questioning it. The best way to deal with opposition is to talk around it to whoever is paying attention. Hope that helps! I appreciate the effort to snap our society out of its delusionary state of mind...
Nov 20, 2022·edited Nov 20, 2022Liked by Toby Rogers
One approach is to test different types of messaging and approaches on people who are on different places on the awareness scale (from 0 to 10). This method allows for experimenting and “lock picking” steps that can allow for progress (“the cool aid is a poison”). Big tech uses this method on a massive scale on millions of people. The good part is it does not have to be on a massive scale to discover effective steps. Some of it can come from the psychology of converting cult members.
I really enjoy your posts and your facebook page comments. I want to ask you to look into "viruses" they are not what makes us sick. You did say you would look into them a few months ago, and I have not seen a post about if you have yet. If you apply your same research abilities to the virus studies, that you did to vaccines, you will see it's all a smoke screen. People are made sick from poisons, virus means poison. You asked in your facebook page recently if not viruses? what are they doing in the biolabs? They are making poisons, vaccines, and creating the illusion of their virus cover story to cover up their crimes and make people scared. It is time we on the heath freedom movement stop using their terms and framing. If we want to protect ourselves and win, lets speak only in terms of things we know to be true and real solutions. Thank you
Viruses are too small to see directly. One of the ways we get structural information from them is to sequence them, transfect bacteria so that they overproduce a region of interest (e.g. the spike protein), purify that protein out, then crystallize it and shoot it with a synchrotron, the x-ray diffraction data allow you to determine the 3d structure. Here's an example, is pretty cool and i did this in grad school
tugordie, Thank you for this! This is the most information I've ever seen about the virus. I'm immediately over my head and will spend more time trying to soak it all in.
One question is, since we can photograph objects on the moon and see into deep space, why can't we see a virus right in front of us, regardless the magnification required?
Q #2: Are you stating that we know the virus is there, and its properties, by inference? As in, if we can see a shadow cast, then we know there is something present that is casting the shadow? And by examining the shadow, we then know about the thing doing the casting?
Thank you for sharing these ideas… About 5 years ago, I had back and forth emails with a friend of a friend about the dangers of vaccines. I used many of your suggestions! Unfortunately, he never acknowledged any aspect of any point. The only result: Both the friend and friend of a friend became unfriends.
Does someone have a comparison of studies between those that support the mrna shots and those that do not?
I would like to find those sources, because that's where I would start my argument. Peer-reviewed studies, pro and con. And let's see which ones are more reasonable.
(Of course, I would also include in my argument the experiences of real people who were injured or killed by these shots, and the experiences of real doctors & nurses.)
The covid shots are easier to tackle first than the regular vaccines, in my loose opinion.
After all the comments, have you made any updates to the initial steps?
Print the list as is.
Give it to anyone willing to look.
As them to "Check all that applies to you" and to add anything missing.
Then have a scintillating conversation.
"But what are the steps in the conversion process for people who have not witnessed vaccine injury first-hand? I’ve been wanting to figure this out for several years now and it’s surprisingly difficult. So I’ve decided to turn to you, my beloved readers, to see if we can figure this out together."
I think the first step is that the vaccine simply doesn't work, but they deployed it anyhow. The disease also has a 0.02% death rate - that's 1 out of 500 across the entire population. Another nudge is just the sheer criminality of pharmaceutical companies. Johnson&Johnson KNOWINGLY sold baby powder contaminated with asbestos. Pfizer paid 2.3 billion for fraud.
There's a point though it's just not worth getting people to realize what has been done. Don't beg somebody to listen to you. Just tell them the truth, and if they don't accept it, that's not your problem.
This is a great sequence for deprogramming. What I found missing is from Level -3: An answer for the worldview "Doctors and scientists have a lot to lose," can be "The opposite is true for doctors: if they discourage vaccines, their medical board can censure them or pull their license. Did you know there is a new law in California punishing doctors from telling patients about alternatives? And scientists are just as vulnerable to backlash if they don't toe the vaccine line."
Yes, excellent!!! 🙌
absolutely brilliant article and approach!! this would be an amazing area for some further research to actually interview converted vax-free parents about this and get some kind of qualitative and quantitative analysis. actually put psychology graduates to research for good rather than evil!!!!
for me - I am ashamed to say that I still got my then 6 month old his immunisations only a few weeks after realising the government was not telling me the full picture about the safety & effectiveness of covid vaccine. I only made the decision to stop vaccinating a few months after that, once I fully realised the depth of deception about ALL vaccines (especially lack of efficacy).
Agree with all the points you raised - but there is one factor I feel operates strongly possibly at a subconscious level of awareness - and that is **who is MORALLY at fault if there is a bad outcome as a result of your decision to either comply, or not comply, with vaccination**
I have been hesitant about childhood vaccines for years, especially due to family history of autism and having followed Dr Natasha Campbell-McBride and the WAPF. However I did not want to take on the responsibility and MORAL BURDEN of making my own decision about my child.
My thinking went like this. If my child was injured by a vaccine **no one is at fault**. Because as a parent, I was just following orders, and the rare vaccine injury is a tragic but inevitable and UNAVOIDABLE consequence of universal vaccination.
On the other hand, if my child dies of an allegedly vaccine-preventable illness, **I am at fault**. Because I didn't listen to the government, I was arrogant and thought I was smarter than thousands of doctors and scientists and put my own child at AVOIDABLE risk.
This whole avoidable (thus unacceptable) vs unavoidable (thus acceptable) risk is the same way they brainwashed people into accepting covid vaccine deaths as tragic but unavoidable ; whereas covid deaths are avoidable (through vaccination) and therefore unacceptable.
This is exactly how our doctors and medical system attribute blame. I actually recently had a doctor tell me that I should much prefer a child with autism (1 in 30 change) than a child dead of tetanus (1 in 1 million chance) "as tetanus is a horrible way to die, and I have watched it happen". There are other social factors that support parents to outsource their decision-making to avoid the moral burden of being wrong.
If my child is vaccine injured, here in Australia I would get support from the government in the form of disability and carer respite services (including a house cleaner and massage vouchers), psychological payoff with a special hashtag to add to my insta bio ""special needs mum/mom"" ; an invitation to join a special celebrated community of neurodiversity complete with rainbows and feelgood TV shows (e.g. "Love on the Spectrum"). If my child dies or is disabled by an allegedly vaccine-preventable illness, I would not only be blamed and ostracised by family, friends, the medical profession, and the media, but I could never live with the self-blame.
The key here is, once parents realise that there are NO benefits to childhood vaccines, only risks, the whole question of moral authority and moral burden becomes moot, and its easier to have the courage to go against the grain.
The bigger question is: why was I so anxious and immature as to knowingly run the risk of my child being vaccine injured ,as long as someone else footed the moral bill? its an extremely troubling question.
Bingo! Who is one's authority...and why?!
Name them. Name the 4 rabbits (we'll name one Lost). Name the 8 mice. Disney did it and changed the world. We need to name them and God help us - the millions other animals that are sacrificed as we get sicker and sicker.
I think it is well put together. We have to use the socratic method . I am so passionate about this topic that I come across too strong. These steps are good!!!
The article was brilliant, practical, thoughtful. Literally, one of the most useful articles I have read. I carry it with me! People can individualize it as they get additional thoughts. I think the title should be “What Are the Steps to Conversion from Vaccine True Believer to Vaccine Abolitionist?” Just a suggestion.
Toby, could you change the name of this article - remove "Crowdsourcing Request"? It's one of the best articles I have read, and I print and pass it out to friends for discussion, but the title is misleading.
Those two words are misleading about the subject matter of the article. Just say, "What are the steps..." etc.
Thank you!
R Elliott
I'm confused by this request. I have no idea what the steps are. I attempted to answer the question to model the process that I wanted others to go through in thinking through this issue. Almost 400 comments later, this, to me, feels like a crowdsourced project. I always learn a lot from the comments (which is why I request them). What is it about the words "crowdsourcing request" that is a deal breaker for you? I imagine you could build a handout (in Microsoft Word or a PDF) with a different headline and the different steps I've outlined (and then just give me credit somewhere for the idea). Substack automatically generates the URL and the words "crowdsourcing request" are in there.
Have appreciated your posts for a long time (back in the day on twister and fakebook!) Years ago, I wrote a couple of books on persuasion. I talked about there being 3 kinds of positions: strong, weak, and opposition. The best way to break through a strong position is by creating cognitive dissonance about only a small part of it...introducing info that reveals how a detail is wrong. The best way to break through a weak position is by questioning it. The best way to deal with opposition is to talk around it to whoever is paying attention. Hope that helps! I appreciate the effort to snap our society out of its delusionary state of mind...
One approach is to test different types of messaging and approaches on people who are on different places on the awareness scale (from 0 to 10). This method allows for experimenting and “lock picking” steps that can allow for progress (“the cool aid is a poison”). Big tech uses this method on a massive scale on millions of people. The good part is it does not have to be on a massive scale to discover effective steps. Some of it can come from the psychology of converting cult members.
Hi Dr Toby,
I really enjoy your posts and your facebook page comments. I want to ask you to look into "viruses" they are not what makes us sick. You did say you would look into them a few months ago, and I have not seen a post about if you have yet. If you apply your same research abilities to the virus studies, that you did to vaccines, you will see it's all a smoke screen. People are made sick from poisons, virus means poison. You asked in your facebook page recently if not viruses? what are they doing in the biolabs? They are making poisons, vaccines, and creating the illusion of their virus cover story to cover up their crimes and make people scared. It is time we on the heath freedom movement stop using their terms and framing. If we want to protect ourselves and win, lets speak only in terms of things we know to be true and real solutions. Thank you
viruses are real, how they work is known. This is not helping the cause!
Then, why is it that all we have been shown is a cartoon drawing of the Covid "virus?"
Viruses are too small to see directly. One of the ways we get structural information from them is to sequence them, transfect bacteria so that they overproduce a region of interest (e.g. the spike protein), purify that protein out, then crystallize it and shoot it with a synchrotron, the x-ray diffraction data allow you to determine the 3d structure. Here's an example, is pretty cool and i did this in grad school
https://www.rcsb.org/structure/6vxx
tugordie, Thank you for this! This is the most information I've ever seen about the virus. I'm immediately over my head and will spend more time trying to soak it all in.
One question is, since we can photograph objects on the moon and see into deep space, why can't we see a virus right in front of us, regardless the magnification required?
Q #2: Are you stating that we know the virus is there, and its properties, by inference? As in, if we can see a shadow cast, then we know there is something present that is casting the shadow? And by examining the shadow, we then know about the thing doing the casting?
Here's a step :)...
"HOW IT’S DONE: Over 3 Million Brazilians Protest Election Fraud – Bolsonaro to Annul the Steal!"
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/11/done-3-million-brazilians-protest-election-fraud-bolsonaro-annul-steal/
Thank you for sharing these ideas… About 5 years ago, I had back and forth emails with a friend of a friend about the dangers of vaccines. I used many of your suggestions! Unfortunately, he never acknowledged any aspect of any point. The only result: Both the friend and friend of a friend became unfriends.
It's so heartbreaking isn't it. We have to try. But it's so expensive emotionally sometimes.
Psych!!!
Elon Musk Confirms That Twitter Will NOT Reinstate Alex Jones
https://newspunch.com/elon-musk-confirms-that-twitter-will-not-reinstate-alex-jones/
Elon Musk Announces Purge of Independent Media – “Only MSM Will Have Freedom of Reach”
https://newspunch.com/elon-musk-announces-purge-of-independent-media-only-msm-will-have-freedom-of-reach/